Any successful relationship requires good communication, compromise, and compatibility. A spanking relationship is no exception even when the pairing may be as temporary as a brief play session at a party. If you have too many contradicting preferences and neither person is willing to bend, the experience probably won’t go too well. And if there is no verbal communication regarding limits or at the very least, perceptible body language cues, there’s an even greater likelihood that things will end on a sour note.
It’s a give and take relationship – far beyond the giving and taking of the actual spanking. It’s probably rare that two people will be on the exact same page as one another 100% of the time. Maybe the spankee wants just a little bit longer or firmer spanking than the top is comfortable in giving. Perhaps the spanker would like to use an implement that the spankee is not fond of. Maybe one person is really in the mood for some spanking play while the other simply isn’t feeling it at the moment.
But when it comes time to play, and say for this example that both people are relatively compatible players, who has the final say on the smaller details and preferences; the spankee or the spanker?
In my case, I dislike any swats delivered to my thighs. Although I’ve received many punishments both on and off camera that have included spanking, strapping, and caning my thighs, I’ve grown fearful of it after having some lingering negative side effects and also find it tricky to hide the resulting marks and bruises when it’s shorts and swimsuit season.
But if a spanker that I’m playing or working with greatly enjoys delivering a few swats to the back of the thighs, isn’t he (or she) just as deserving of having his needs met? Yes, it’s the spankee that experiences the physical discomfort, but there is an emotional satisfaction that is of equal importance to both. Is the spankee always the one to set the rules and limits or does there need to be some flexibility in order to avoid completely topping from the bottom?
May 19th, 2009 - 12:10 pm
Hi Pixie….I agree with your three Cs……communication, compromise and compatability….particularly the patability bit!……but with my two ladies, at the end of the day the details are left to me because they know that they can trust me, that I spank them with love and that they are over my knee because they’ve been naughty and therefore deserve to be chastised.
To be less serious……communication is between my hand and their bottoms, compromise is that I provide the palm if they provide the cheeks and compatability is that my hand is made for spanking and their backsides are made for being spanked!!!
How lucky we are that such good communication, compromise and compatability exists between me and my ladies……
Aristotle
May 19th, 2009 - 12:23 pm
I’d say it depends on the actual relationship, and who it’s between. If you’re having a play session and it’s a ‘temporary relationship’ (as you say), then the spankee has every right to say ‘please don’t do that.’
There is a deeper trust and bond between, say, a husband and wife.. versus someone you are just having a session with.
For me, I don’t really have any say. I’m allowed to voice my opinion, but we’ve come to an agreement that he calls the shots, and that’s okay with me.. because we trust each other. I hate having my thighs hit, also, but I do get that.. if he so chooses.
However when I’ve met someone purely for spanking, we both tell each other what we expect, and what we don’t expect. That includes me saying the things I don’t want to happen, and he respects that.. just like I respect what he says he doesn’t want.
I think it’s different for every different type of relationship, and for every person in each of those relationships. It can go all kinds of different ways depending on who you talk to.
May 19th, 2009 - 1:41 pm
I would give the smaller details to the spankee. As a single male I know that if I don’t do my job as spanker well I might not get to play with that spankee again, so the pressure is on me to provide the best scene possible for her. Any feedback is welcome if it helps toward that goal. In an actual relationship between “significant others” I like to think the scale is more balanced in terms of needs being met, but in casual play it’s a lot more about making the spankee happy. I gte my enjoyment just being there to play.
May 19th, 2009 - 2:22 pm
In my opinion it’s mostly “topping from the bottom” as that creates the necessary BALANCE.
It’s crucial to read the body language well and to realize that every spanking should be a good experience for BOTH.
When not, spanking play will be over soon.
One can – I believe – compare it with making love. As BOTH partners need to be satisfied in making love as much as in spanking play.
Making love and spanking are both extremely sensitive balancing acts, that both players need to continuously improve on to keep it attractive.
Maybe the reason that many spankees feel attracted to elderly men?
May 19th, 2009 - 2:46 pm
Pixie,
If it is a consensual spanking, then the spankee should always have the final say on the details of the spanking. The spanker can make suggestions but the spankee has the final authority. Of course, the spankee can always turn the authority over to the spanker if a prior level of trust has been established.
If it is a punishment spanking, the spanker has the decision-making authority to determine the details of the spanking. However, the spanker is bound to be fair and just in dispensing the punishment so that it actually “fits the crime”.
Bottoms Up,
Steve
May 19th, 2009 - 3:26 pm
I have t admit that I agree with Steve, with one major difference: punishment or play, the spankee, for safety reasons, needs t have a safe-word, and should be able to reserve the privilidge of stating what instruments are, or are not, allowed to be used on them.
This is wholly for safety reasons. Even in a trusting relatinship, there can be psycholgical issues, and the spankee always has the right to feel safe, even during a punishment. There are some issues that must, in the interests of emotional stability and safety, be left u to the spankee. ther than that, I think it’s a matter f discretion, although mutual agreement is a god thing.
May 19th, 2009 - 4:22 pm
Hi Pixie. Some give and take is probably needed by both if each person is interested in making it good for the other. But I believe the spankee should always have the final say about anything done to them – unless they choose to give up control. The better two people know each other’s preferences, and more importantly, any hard limits, the more control can safely go to the spanker. I’m not much interested in spanking thighs, but if I was, I wouldn’t want to do it to someone who really wasn’t into it. OTOH, if the spanker has limits, they have to be respected too. For example, I wouldn’t want to do anything that causes bleeding. Nobody should have to do anything or have anything done to them they don’t agree to.
May 19th, 2009 - 5:02 pm
Very well made point Pixie! The three Cs are the corner stone of any relationship, especially when in the context of spanking which is why trust and respect are so important.
Talking about your preferences is essential to establish clear boundaries and safe practices to build that trust. Once there, maybe the boundaries can be pushed and tested a little in safety. Taking your case (if only, lol), I’m sure you don’t begrudge your man administering a few swats to your thighs as long as he doesn’t dwell on them (although having seen them, I can hardly blame him if he does!).
I’m curious though, how do you apply the three Cs to the creation of a Punished Brats scene? Do you tailor the brat to the scene or the scene to the brat? Although, I suppose that your players are experienced enough and familiar enough with each other to know the limits and preferences involved.
May 19th, 2009 - 11:14 pm
OMG, “Topping from the Bottom”, thats me. I “boss” my “Top” around, and he takes it. Well…I get away with it sometimes. Never thought of it that way. Interesting…
May 20th, 2009 - 12:03 am
Hi Pixie,
On the very first play session I am very careful. I watch for each and every sign from my spankee. I listen to her, I watch her body movement, I use a variety of toys and ask questions during the session. The questions are always leading: are you going to be a good girl…?, Have you learned your lesson…? And depending on her answer, I will then slow down, soften, stop or heat it up a bit. I need her to respond to me in a way that I can understand and then we can play together in harmony.
May 20th, 2009 - 1:21 am
Dear Pixie,
The bottom line? Negotiate everything–leave nothing to chance, especially if there are things you feel strongly about.
I knew a girl who had very strong feelings about smacks to the thighs–she not only hated it, but it really sent her mind into a bad place, reminding her of a horrible experience from long ago. That was a hard limit for her, and I certainly understood.
Since it quite literally is your bottom on the line, it’s best to decide for yourself before going in what you might be willing to negotiate and what you won’t.
A good spanker will respect a spankee’s hard limits–if he can’t, then maybe they’d best go play with someone else.
For myself, if a spankee has a hard limit, I have no problem with that, even if it’s something I particularly enjoy. I figure there’s enough going on within a spanking scenario–plenty of other things I like–that agreeing to take something off the table is really no big deal.
Both spanker and spankee should walk away from a session with a feeling of, “That was fun!”. If it makes the overall experience better for everybody, than sacrificing some small part of it is no big deal and an easy price to pay.
Dr. Ken
May 20th, 2009 - 2:05 am
Hi Pixie!
Wow! What a great picture! Thank God for Pixie! Keep it coming!
I agree: any successful relationship does, indeed, require good communication, compromise, and compatibility. It also takes chemistry, common interests (like spanking
), and accommodation. I also agree that if there are too many contradicting preferences, needs, wants, desires, attitudes, values, and beliefs, the relationship is untenable. Sharing a spanking practice between two people requires lots of communication, expression of inner desires, and the setting of safe and sane limits. As you say Pixie, it’s really a give and take affair.
As to who has the final say, the spankee does every time, with some limitations of course. The spankee is the one receiving the stimulus so it makes perfect sense that he or she would be the one to specify how much, how long, and how hard. Pushing limits, now and again, is probably acceptable, provided that the spanker keeps the play in the safe and sane realm. Going a little further adds excitement and realism, but only to a point. The spanker has to be careful not to cross the line of sexual assault. On the other hand, if the spankee wants a beating or to be chastised with an implement with which the spanker feels uncomfortable using, the spankee should respect his or her partner’s boundaries and preferences, and should not insist.
In the heat of play, incidental swats may land in private areas, or the back of the thighs may receive a spank or two. These are the risks of any energetic play, like a hard but fair tackle on the football field. However, if the spankee has a no-strike rule concerning the thighs and the spanker somehow hits that area one-to-many times, I feel that the spankee’s boundaries are not being fully respected and the spanker is letting his or her sadistic urges run amok.
I have not been in a relationship in which my partner wanted to spank me in a way that I felt uncomfortable with. If it didn’t involve too much pain, I might be inclined to indulge my wife’s desires in this regard, but she doesn’t have any, so it’s not an issue. As to allowing the same privilege to anyone else, the answer would be a definite no.
I find it disconcerting when I read about the ire some tops feel when spankees attempt to top from the bottom. All tops should realize one thing: they have the permission to spank so long as what they do is consensual. When they cross the line of mutual consent they run the risk of committing sexual battery. Therefore, all consensual spanking is, in one form or another, bottom topping, at least in how the spankee wants to be treated.
May 20th, 2009 - 2:30 am
I have my hard limits, and those I will not bend for anyone. But I also have my “OK, I don’t care for this but if you really want to do it…” limits. These are things that I would rather skip, but if they really please the spanker, then I will go along with them for him, and take pleasure in knowing he’s happy. (Yes, I really do like the spanker to be happy! Don’t quote me on that, though.)
I don’t think the spankee should give in on her absolute NOs. Things frighten/repel us for a reason, and come on, this spanking thing is supposed to be fun, right? However, some flexibility is in order. Communication is key, as to what are hard limits and what are things we will accept, even though they’re not our favorites.
And few things in our scene set my teeth on edge more than this business of a spankee/bottom stating limits and/or preferences, and being told she’s topping from the bottom. Arrgh.
May 20th, 2009 - 2:24 pm
Pixie an interesting post ,unfortunately i dont get to spank lovely girls like you ,that is why i love the vids on p.B. and clares and Chelseas sites andother u.S.a.ones and English school type settings suppose it depends on the girls preferences on their spankings ,as long as they enjoy it that is the main thing .Lots of love and spanks from tim xxxx
May 20th, 2009 - 6:55 pm
I’m all about “topping from the bottom”. But, I think either person should have the right to set limits. If the spankee doesn’t want something done to them, either for safety reasons or just because it is a turn-off, then the top should respect that. Likewise, if a top does not like to do certain things, or use certain implements, the bottom shouldn’t pressure them to comply. No-one should be coerced into doing something that makes them uncomfortable. It should be a pleasurable experience for both parties. In an ongoing relationship, once you know eachothers limits, it can be exciting to let the top have free reign in deciding how many, how hard, and with what. That way the bottom can enjoy the surprise and the freedom of losing control to someone they trust comepletely.
May 21st, 2009 - 10:41 pm
I don’t think, not wanting to be hit overly hard, or in certain places is “topping from the bottom”, the person at the receiving end, should always reserve the right to say no, without insulting or upsetting the other person.
May 22nd, 2009 - 12:46 pm
Pixie nice to see Susan again bet you were glad to have her backexcept she brought that rotten strap with her lol.wow darling your bottie was very blushing pinkyou would need soft cushions to sit on for a while you look lovely as usual lots of love and spanks from tim xxxx
May 22nd, 2009 - 5:39 pm
In any relationship, one of the parties always limits how far it can ultimately proceed, whether the entities involved are two people, employer/employee, companies, or countries. Someone will at some point expect or want more than the other is willing to give. I think you’re right about Communication, Compromise, and Compatibility being vital throughout the relationship, and each is at different times the most important, if it is to progress and flourish.
In my experience, even “hard limits” can often be overcome with communication and imagination: Someone can come to actually enjoy a previously “hated” or “feared” implement or practice; a spanko can get a vanilla to accept spanking – as long as both are willing to compromise – until today’s “No way” becomes tomorrow’s “OK,” and eventually, perhaps, the other party even initiates the activity. But the vanilla will probably never be quite as enthusiastic a partner as would another spanko and, if communication isn’t maintained or the couple really aren’t compatible, a plaintive “please don’t spank me” can easily develop into “DON’T… SPANK… ME!” (never words we want to hear).
Initially, though, I think both the bottom in a play scene (especially at a party), and the model in a video scene make the final decisions regarding what is or isn’t permissible (the latter within professional bounds). Until the parties involved get to know one another better, how could the vital element of trust honestly be present?
May 22nd, 2009 - 8:54 pm
I believe it truly depends on the context. . . . . . In play, or in modeling, I believe that the spankee should have full say. In these contexts, there really isn’t time to build a level of trust, usually, nor is there true knowledge of “quirks” or limits. However, in an ongoing spanking relationship, I believe that final say rests with the spanker. The spankee obviously has input. . . . .but at the same time, the spanker is the one in charge. I believe it is responsibility to KNOW his spankee, her limits, and her issues, and to be fair at all costs. If a spankee knows that this is the case, she should have issues leaving final say up to him. In several of the contexts I’ve been spanked in, this set up has been called “consensually nonconsensual”.
May 22nd, 2009 - 10:51 pm
So many relevant comments from your fans… I’d have to agree, knowing and communicating your hard limits isn’t “topping from the bottom” it’s simply framing your needs and practical application of good personal boundaries.
“Bottoms up” LOL
May 23rd, 2009 - 2:49 am
To put it simply, I have always held to the belief that the top is the one in charge and what he or she wants is what it will be, however any top that does not respect the bottom and her limitations shouldn’t even be in that position. People should discuss before hand what they both like, don’t like, need, don’t need, want, and don’t want.
So yeah, the top should have charge as well as an understanding and caring attitude for the bottom.
May 23rd, 2009 - 11:01 am
It’s always been my contention that the true power of a spanking relationship is with the spankee. They have the ultimate sanction with just the simple word; “No!”
That being said the limits should be established beforehand, but once the spankee gives their gift of submission with-in the those limits then there lies the thrill of the game. Giving up control is both a thrill and a need for some. Most of all there has to be TRUST.
Thats why I have found the best spanking relationships don’t jusy happen, the evolve over time. Like any other relationship it’s a journey best enjoyed in the slow lane, taking time to enjoy the ride!
May 23rd, 2009 - 2:53 pm
Aristotle – You are very fortunate to be pretty much on the same page with both of your lovely ladies. But I know from emailing with you, that you care very much for them and if there was something they truly did not want to do, you would give pause. From what you’ve described to me as well as here on this blog, it sounds like your ladies share the joys of spanking every bit as much as you … and do everything in their power to earn a trip over your knee or each other’s as often as possible!
Naomi – You’re right that the relationship between the spanker and spankee makes a big difference. I too would be far more likely to submit or compromise with someone I have a deeper relationship with (my husband, a trusted mentor, etc) as opposed to someone I just met at a party or am asked to shoot a scene with. My reaction to the same limit pushing would be very different depending on who was doing the pushing.
007 – True enough. The first time you’re playing, it can be extra difficult to determine what’s ok and what isn’t. Especially when meeting at a social gathering and then only having a short time to discuss preferences, it can feel like there is so much to worry about in trying to guess what the other person is comfortable with. Yes, you can ask along the way “is it ok to take your panties down?”, “are you doing ok, can I spank a little harder?”, “do you mind if I rub your bottom for a while?”. The play may feel a bit stiff and stilted, but it’s better than crossing a line without knowing it. Feedback is vital!
Funbun – Yep, and I guess just like any relationship or partnership, sometimes people just aren’t 100% compatible. Even within the group of us spanking enthusiasts, there are many variations in preference and for example, a person seeking just a few light pats and much rubbing for a sensual spanking probably wouldn’t pair up well with a spanker that preferred to deliver intense, strict disciplinary spankings. Has to be a pretty good match to start with and then communication from both parties throughout.
As for the attraction to elderly men?? I’m not sure. I think there is often a sense that older men may be more practiced and experienced and the age difference lends itself naturally to the sort of power exhange that occurs during a spanking. The definition of an older man I think is relative to the spankee, but I’m not sure I’d go so far as to say elderly though.
Steve – The spanker has a lot of responsibility resting on his/her shoulders. Although it’s the spankee that’s getting his/her bottom smacked, the spanker has a tough (yet rather enjoyable) job.
Terri – Safe words are vital! Very good point too about the spankee needing to feel emotional and psychological safety as well as physical safety. Without even meaning to harm, words can sometimes hurt more than the spanking itself.
dana – Yes, I’d hope that for most spankers that doing something that truly made the spankee upset wouldn’t be a pleasurable experience. As a spankee, I try to be mindful of what the spanker’s limits might be as well. It’s tough to guess and sometimes awkward to ask outright. Does the spanker want bratty banter and lots of reaction or a quiet submissive who maintains position without so much as a reminder?
D – My husband, thankfully, isn’t one to hit the thighs at all, but if he did, I wouldn’t have a problem in speaking up and asking for it to stop. It’s more of my experience in doing scenes and in meeting people at parties that like to hit low that brought up this topic. It’s actually less clear to me where the spanker’s right to his preferences end and my own begin when it’s not within the context of a close relationship.
At PB, we tell the girls what to expect when they are hired as far as intensity, implements, number of scenes, etc. Everyone is given a safeword and while we want to challenge them so as to give a genuine disciplinary spanking, their limits are respected. That being said, if a girl isn’t up for taking an actual spanking (we have been asked before if the spanking can be faked and blush applied to the bottom for color for example) or too many other limits that would compromise the quality of the content, then it’s not going to be a good fit and we’ll have to pass.
Naughty_Ney – Sometimes you get away with it and sometimes you pay the price?
Mr. K – Great style of questions to ask to stay in the role but still get a feel for how the spankee is doing.
Dr. Ken – I think the spanks to the backs of my thighs are a semi-hard (and growing firmer) limit for me. I’m not fond of it and as I said, I am fearful of it after experiencing icky nerve tingling all the way down to my toes following a few thigh punishments. Still, some spankers like to go for the thighs knowing it will get a reaction from me … it just may not be the reaction they are looking for. But when I’m in the moment and over someone’s lap getting spanked, I’m not sure what’s appropriate unless it’s a clear and deliberate violation. How much do I give in to ensure the spanker has his needs met and how much do I control so as to make sure that I’m not left feeling pushed too far and uncomfortable.
Annapurna – I guess it boils down to the fact that it sometimes can be a gray area between pushing limits and ignoring them. Trust and time make it a little clearer. The bottom having no say at all would indeed be a little too intense and bordering on non-consensual for my personal taste as well.
Erica – “Yes, I really do like the spanker to be happy!” Whoops. The secret is out.
I suppose it really is best to be upfront about limits and stand firm on the hard ones or else it’s not going to be much fun for either person in the end.
TigerLily – I agree that when you get to the point that you can truly trust, give up a little control, and feel safe rather than guarded, that is the best experience. It may be a little bit of a bumpy road along the way, but when you finally can achieve that level of mutual trust, it’s a beautiful thing.
justme – I’m with you and I wish it were always that way.
tim – Glad you’re enjoying the latest updates. Great to have Susan back.
^Mike – Yes, I suppose it is best to err on the side of caution and allow the recipient to set the limits until a deeper trust is developed. Better safe than sorry!!
Keagen – In your on camera experience, have you ever had it occur that you were asked to do something or had something happen to you that you were really not comfortable with? I don’t mean as far as physical intensity because I know that you have a tolerance that is out of this world, but rather a scenario or technique that wasn’t ok with you. Are you completely comfortable in setting any limits or do you feel that you should endure things that you normally wouldn’t in private play since you are being hired to perform? This is something that I sometimes struggle with so I’d love to hear your experiences.
Maitresse – That’s good. I’m glad that communicating limits wouldn’t be perceived as a negative. I’d just want to make sure that the spanker’s needs were being met too if at all possible.
Schwarz – Such a delicate balance. I prefer when I feel I can literally put myself in the hands of the spanker and give up that control knowing that I’m still going to be safe. I think the roles and responsibilities of the top are often undestimated. It’s about so much more than just smacking a bottom. The spanker has quite a lot to do in reading the needs of the spankee while setting the tone and delivering a good spanking.
Poppa Mark – Very well put! Definitely enjoy the ride.